The ABC's of Murmuration - Getting to "US" with Kathy Hagler and Robin Graham
What can leaders learn from the natural world?
In this episode of the Engaged By Design Podcast, Michael Cottam and Vernon Smith continue their conversation with Dr. Kathy Hagler and Robin Graham, co-authors of The ABCs of Murmuration: Collective Wisdom of Nature.
Building on the concept of Flock Logic, the conversation explores how leaders and organizations can adapt, move together, and learn from the rhythms of nature.
Kathy and Robin introduce the idea of “walking in a new way” — shifting how we think about leadership, collaboration, and innovation. Through stories, research, and practical insights, they show how collective movement, shared rhythm, and distributed leadership can help organizations navigate complexity and change.
If you work in education, leadership, or organizational development, this episode will challenge you to rethink how groups move, learn, and evolve together.
Extended Show Notes
Nature offers powerful lessons for leadership — especially when we observe how complex systems move and adapt together.
In this episode, Michael and Vernon welcome back Dr. Kathy Hagler and Robin Graham, authors of The ABCs of Murmuration: Collective Wisdom of Nature. Their work explores how patterns found in nature — particularly bird murmurations — reveal powerful insights about collaboration, adaptability, and collective intelligence.
During the conversation, they explore:
- What murmuration can teach us about collective leadership
- The concept of Flock Logic and shared rhythm in organizations
- Why leadership today requires movement rather than control
- How organizations can adapt by “walking in a new way”
- The power of distributed leadership and emergent collaboration
- Lessons from nature that apply to education, innovation, and change
Rather than relying on rigid hierarchies, effective organizations learn to move like living systems — sensing, adapting, and responding together.
For leaders navigating uncertainty, these ideas provide a fresh lens for understanding how people and organizations can thrive in complex environments.
